Titel: John Waters; een retrospectief (Engels)
Auteur: Frank
Categorie: Interview
Datum: 22/05/10

John, your movies are being called B-Underground and Trash. With that in mind I would say this is the typical festival for you.

Well, there aren’t that many of these kind of festivals that I can think of. In America there used to be the New York & Chicago Underground festival. But my films, you know, I've been in Cannes. They have been in the official selections. I think the festivals today are more divers. You can have your movie here and have your movie in Cannes. I think that today Trash and B-movie are more mainstream. I just saw today that Roger Corman is getting a special Acadamy Award this year. That’s exactly what I mean. His movies would have been scorned by the Acadamy Awards, but now they are respective. This film festival and the kids that are here are very much what I was like. The main difference is these festivals are looking for their movies. When I was making these movies nobody was looking for them. There was nowhere to show them. The festivals called the police.

They called the police?

Yeah, the one in Baltimore did and stopped the movie.

Why is that?

Because at the time, we had the Kennedy assassination and we had this and Divine thing happening. It was two years after it really happened and they really didn’t think it was funny.

Your production company is called the Dreamlanders.

It used to be. We are still called the survivors of the Dreamlanders, the people who are still alive like Mink Stole and Pat Moran.

Do you still work with them?

Yeah. Mink Stole had been in all of them but one and Pat Moran hast cast all of them. I’ve worked with a lot of people and the new ones who have been in only six movies. You know, they are the second generation or even the third generation of Dreamlanders. I like working with the same people over and over. My audience has grown up with Mink Stole.

Have you seen all my movies?

I have seen a couple of them.

Well, if you know my movies then you expect to see Mink Stole in them.

What about Divine, if he would have lived, would you still be working with him?

Who knows, I hope so. I think he would have been the grandmother in “A Dirty Shame”. He probably would have had that part. Because he would have been sixty or something and he would probably be playing a male role. The day after he died he should have been in LA to audition for a role in Married with Children to play the part of a gay uncle on the show. It would have been the first gay part on national television and it would have worked. He could have ended up playing that uncle on that show. He also wanted that part very much.

How was it to work with a person like Divine?

We grew up together. I just knew the audience would like him. I could just tell. He was a good actor, and he was angry. In real life he wasn’t a drag queen. He didn't walk around dressed like that, except when we were making a movie. He was really hassled at school. At school he was like a nerd almost. He wasn’t boring, but he was feminine and teachers were hateful to him. So he had a lot of anger. And I used his anger to understand and create the character named Divine. Where he could use that anger. Divine was really my Godzilla, and Jane Mansfield, put together to scare hippies. That's what the part was created for. He understand that.

In the movie “Pink Flamingos” there’s a scene filmed in a car where Divine was walking through the streets. Was this scene acted or was it real?

It was real, I was in my car. I actually stole that idea. Do you know who Armando Bo is? He made all these movies with Isabel Sarli, his wife. He was the South American Russ Meyer. She made this movie were there is a scene were she is walking through Times Square and it is the same scene, and I forgot. Yeah, the scene in “Pink Flamingos” is the same. It was in the middle of the winter and everybody was wearing coats except Divine. It just stopped the car and said get out. He got out and just walked. Nobody saw the car. You can see people looking at him in surprise. It was real.

What can you tell me about your inspirations?

Well, the movie from Armando Bo was the inspiration for that. Art movies like the movies from Ingmar Bergman and all the Swedish movies and all the movies that caused trouble at the beginning. After that I went to the drive in all the time to watch Russ Meyer movies and exploitation movies. And Fellini. I had all different extreme interests in movies. Not the Hollywood ones except the bad Hollywood ones. We put them all together to try to come up with a new genre which was really art films and exploitations films for the art theatre.

Herschell Gordon Lewis. You’ve called him a inspiration too.

I’ve written about him in my first book “Shock Values”. He’s remaking “Gore Gore Girls” right now.

OK. I didn't know that. Are you involved with that one?

I was supposed to, but it’s a non union movie and I’m in the Acting Union so I can’t play a part in that. I was in “Blood Feast 2” though, I played a pedophile priest.

How was it to meet the guy?

I’ve met Herschell before. I’ve met him for my book. He was great. I went down to Florida and he was like hiding. I sort of found him again. People started remembering him when I started writing about him. He was sort of vanished for a while. He didn’t do anything since like 1980's. He was great. I think his wife didn’t want him to be discovered again. But I think she got used to it.

What’s the deal about Baltimore?

Baltimore is just a strange town. 60 percent black. There’s a lot of poor white and rich people. There’s isn’t that much middle. It’s kinda like Berlin was like when the wall was up. There was no middle there either. It’s a city of extremes. I like it, everybody has a great sense of humor. They just didn’t understand that some travelling region magazine voted it the town with the ugliest people. They didn’t understand extreme style. The mayor was really mad about it. He should have been happy. You don’t want to be the second ugliest, they are just gargoyles. You want to win. What city has the ugliest people in Holland?

I think it is Amsterdam.

Amsterdam the ugliest?

Yeah, Amsterdam has the ugliest people and the prettiest. A city of extremes as well.

Your earlier movies were pretty controversial. What did you try to do with them?

I was just trying to surprise my audience, which in the beginning were obviously hippies. But originally the audience for “Pink Flamingos” were gay people that didn’t get along with other gay people. Bikers and straight hippies who wanted to be punk, but punk hadn’t happened yet. My audience were always outsiders who didn’t fit in with their own. That’s my core.

What’s the deal with the more mainstream approach in your later movies?

“Hairspray” turned into a huge mainstream success. Sometimes it can accidentally happen. I don't understand. I always believe my movies are going to be hits. I’m always surprised when they aren’t. I don’t think that a movie should have to make you feel good. I feel good before I go to the movies. People in America don’t want to see movies with subtitles. Why? I don't get it! I even like it when there are white subtitles in a movie with snow so you can’t even see the subtitles. I like the moviegoing experience to be extreme. I realise that it is radically changing. Even young people don’t want to see controversial movies. Thank god European film still does that, and even some do in America.

Do you watch many European movies?

Yeah, I do.

Can you name a few you like?

I very much like the movies from the guy who made “Irréversible” and I love his wife’s movie, called “Innocence”. I like so many of them. I mostly go see foreign films. I love Lars von Trier and can’t wait to see “Antichrist”.

Yeah, same here.

Will you ever make a 100% mainstream movie?

I guess “Hairspray” was. At least, it became one accidentally. In the beginning Divine would have played the mother and the daughter, that was my idea. But New Line didn’t want that. Who knows what would have happened if Divine would have played both. I doubt it would have been so mainstream. Maybe, but you never know what is going to happen.

What do you think about the remake of “Hairspray”?

I liked it. The film was good. They had to change a couple of things, make it broader and make it bigger. The movies which are musicals don’t work if they shoot the same musical. It’s the same with the Broadway version. Each time you do it, it has to change. It has to turn into something else or it will fall.

What about part II?

I’ve written it, I wrote the treatment I don’t know if it’s ever going to be made. It’s pretty crazy, it’s more like my old movies. In a certain way though, it will be PG 13. It’s about the sixties, the real sixties. It will involve drugs, political violence. That kind of stuff will happen, but it’s still a musical. So we’ll see. I hope it gets made but the only thing that is against it is that whenever you do a sequel, the actors want more money and since then some have become huge stars. We also have to find a new Ricky Lake or she will be too old (Blonsky who played the part Ricky Lake had in the original inside joke by John Waters). I mean Nikki, not Ricky. If we don’t do it soon she’ll be 30. She could do it on Broadway when she is 30, but not in the movie.

I’ve read about a title called Fruitcake?

That’s all it is! No, it’s a whole script. They paid me to write it and I liked it. But I doubt it is going to be made at the moment. You know with the economy in America. It isn’t made because they don’t like the script. It isn’t made because there is no money for it. There’s money for Hollywood movies which are doing great. Multi million dollar movies are doing great. Independent movies aren’t being made that way. You need millions of dollars to do that. I can’t go back and do it the way I used to. I could but I really can’t afford years of my life for this and get nothing out of it. I have a company and employees. I’ll figure a way to do it. I just don’t know how to do it yet, maybe I just have to wait a bit more.

Any more plans for the future?

I’ve wrote a book called “Role Models” which I’ve been working on for two years and is coming out next spring. A big art show in New York. I’ve got a one man show called; “This Filthy World”. I’ve got a Christmas tour called “The John Waters Christmas”.

I saw your CD here: “A John Waters Christmas”.

Yeah, that’s the original. The tour is a updated version

You’ve been a regular in a lot of Court Sessions. What can you tell me about that?

I used to. I don’t do that anymore. I am still working to try and free a friend who has been in jail for a very terrible case; the Manson Murders (we are talking about Leslie van Houten here) She has been in jail for forty years and I think it is enough. Here is a cause I am very serious about. It’s not for shock value or humour. It’s a big chapter in my new book. So you can say I’m busy.

How did you get in contact with Leslie?

I’ve followed that case and the trails. In the eighties I wanted to interview her for Rolling Stone when I was doing a lot of work for Rolling Stone. And they wanted me to interview Manson but I didn’t. So I wrote to her but she didn’t want to be put in that magazine but we still kept friends. Finally when working on my book I asked her about it and she said yes because I wasn’t going to write about her crime, but hopefully her rehabilitation. About the person she is know. About the person she thinks she would have been if she wouldn’t have met Manson. It’s a complicated construction. But I give very much respect also to the victims. Do have the most devastating reasons to keep her in. I understand the victims. They can’t be wrong. But I believe she correctly has taken full responsibility and I think it is enough. You can never make it better. Her new life is the only thing she can change, she can’t change anything else.

What’s your opinion about the total of this festival?

I had a great time last night. I loved seeing “Modern Love Is Automatic” in the park where they showed it like a Drive-In movie. It’s amazing that the government here supports these kind of festivals. Back home they would try to stop it and not help it. It’s very positive and I think the people here are great, a good community.

What did you think about the performance last night (Aesthetic Meat Front performed the night before the interview, and John looked like he was really going into the performance)?

It was good. They wanted to get everybody in a kind of trance. It sounded like a soundtrack. A soundtrack I would have used. If they can write their music to the scenes. But not in Fruitcake. I already picked all the music for Fruitcake. It will be bad Christmas novelty songs.

Back to your movies. A Dirty Shame is described as a return to your earlier work.

Well, I don’t know about that, it’s just the next movie. It’s parodying sexploitation movies which I have never done. Unfortunately it was back to the censorship which I never thought I would get, but I did get it in America thanks to the rating system. It’s like a corporate liberal censorship which is worse. This is because today they are smart. In the earlier days you would let the board talk and they would dig their own grave. Smart censors are scary.

Even for you?

Yeah, they make point that people believe. And they know how to use their power, the corporate power.

Your movies have been called political as well. What’s your stance on that?

I think a lot of humour is political in a way. It’s a good weapon, it’s a good protection. I got through high school by making the people who were always beating me up laugh so they didn’t.

Do you have a favourite movie you have worked on?

That’s like asking Meryl Streep in “Sophie’s Choice” to pick one of her children. They are all the same to me! I always root for the one who wasn’t or isn’t doing well. It’s the same like you root for the child who is in trouble more.

You’ve worked with a couple of actors who are big stars in Hollywood now, like Johnny Depp, Christina Ricci, Edward Furlong, Melanie Griffith. Would you still work with them if you could?

Yeah, sure! Johnny is great, and I’m still friends with a lot of them. They’ve al made great movies and would like to work with them again. I would also like to work with Meryl Streep. I’d definitely would love that. But Melanie Griffith, Tracey Ullman, I love them!

What can you tell me about the music you choose for your movies?

I write with music, so the music is like the subtitles. When writing the script I listen to the music which is going to play in that movie. So when I’m writing I’m also playing the record and doing the soundtrack. Not the score that comes later, but the music I use to help tell the story. It’s almost like a narration.

What kind of music do you like?

I like redneck music, I like vintage, rhythm and blues, songs I hope you haven’t heard before. I also use new music, like punk rock and I have used The Locust. So I like all kinds of music, I like rap music. So I listen to all kinds of music.

What can you tell me about the last scene of Pink Flamingos?

It was true, it was not that big a deal. But when we made that movie nobody had hair like Divine. Nobody had red or blue hair and Divine’s hair was shaved backwards and dyed yellow. You could’t leave the house like that. You looked like a mutant, a freak, a thrill. So it was kinda like committing a crime making that movie or a political action, more than show business. Take the guy with the singing asshole. He did try to audition but I took his word for it. Because somebody has seen him do it. Bruno had a singing penis in “Brüno”, I think that is the new version of the singing asshole in Pink Flamingos.

Let's talk about “Hairspray” some more.

Which one?

“Hairspray, the Broadway musical”.

That is the one thing in my life I did make a lot of money from. More than anyone of my movies. It was a very big experience for me. From the first time I read the script I thought it was gonna be a big hit, but I didn’t want to say it because it didn’t want to curse it. Somebody said to me earlier; “All you can do is fuck the film.” It was a wonderful experience. From the moment the show started, it worked. It was a different kind of success. “Cry Baby” went to Broadway and it didn’t work. Even though I thought it would have worked.

What changed for you after the success you had with “Hairspray” on Broadway?

My mother could finally like one of them (laughs).

Well, nothing in my life changed overnight. I’ve had a career for over forty years. It has al been gradual. It’s like long term stock market, it’s up and down.

I’ve heard a funny metaphor. You’ve been called the King of Trash, we are here at the B-Underground and Trash Film Festival. One of the guys I have been talking to said to me; “Well if he is the King of Trash, then he is the father / grandfather of everything here.”

Yeah, I feel like the elder and maybe I am. That's great! I’m glad to see my children out doing my work.

So you like the comparison?

Yeah, very much so. The thing is that you guys have this festival, we don’t have these kind of festivals anymore.

You’ve wrote some books, done a cd.

Two actually. “A date with John Waters” and “A Christmas with John Waters”.

A date with John Waters, what is the story about that one?

It’s all romantic music.

But to get back to the question. If you have to give a preference between all that you have done, what will it be?

All of them have to do with writing. I have to write the movies, I have to write the artwork in a way. I think of what it is going to be, I have to write my books obviously. Everything involves writing. Every morning I have to think about something to fuck up, every afternoon I have to film. That’s my business, that’s how it works. I have to keep the people working for my company, I work for my company. We are trying to develop, I guess, a warped brain which is being a curator in a way. As for the cd’s if I could sing, I would. There is nothing I wouldn’t do if I could. Basically I am just picking songs which I think you need to know about. That’s curating really. I only can do one at a time. I’m pretty good at being organized. Everyday I get to work at eight am, not 8:01 or 8:02, not on Saturdays or Sundays.

Anything else you want to add, any final words?

No, I’ve been doing interviews for forty years. If  I think there’s something you should have asked I would and should have told it!